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 The Europe of the 12th Century

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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: The Europe of the 12th Century   Thu 05 Jan 2017, 22:06

Reading two novels each about the 12th century Europe:
"The Captive Queen" from Alison Weir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alison_Weir
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7076074-captive-queen
About Eleonor of Aquitaine and Henry II of England.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_II_of_England
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_VII_of_France


And "The Ruby in her Navel" from Barry Unsworth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Unsworth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ruby_in_her_Navel
About the Sicily of Roger II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_II_of_Sicily
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_I,_Holy_Roman_Emperor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#12th_century


About the interactions in the Europe of the 12th century tomorrow more...

Kind regards, Paul.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Europe of the 12th Century   Fri 06 Jan 2017, 22:14

About the antagonist countries of that time with their respective leaders:
The kingdom of Sicily
I read the two volumes of Julius Norwich:
https://www.amazon.com/Normans-Sicily-1016-1130-Kingdom-1130-1194/dp/0140152121
And in that was the main figurehead Roger II of Sicily 1095-1154


 The Kingdom of the Franks
https://europeanhistory.boisestate.edu/images/maps/france1180.jpg

With Louis VII of France 1120-1180
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_VII_of_France

 And Henry II of England 1133-1189


 And between them: Eleonor of Aquitaine 1122-1204

And the Holy Roman Empire wityh Frederick I Barbarossa 1122-1190


And the popes, who were a might due to the power of Christian Religion and the interference in wordly affairs. And it were them who crowned the Holy Roman Emperor...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#12th_century



Kind regards, Paul.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Europe of the 12th Century   Sat 07 Jan 2017, 22:28

Lost my message again due to research Twisted Evil

I start again:

Before starting with my comments on the 12th century, I was struck in the two novles that I mentioned in this thread, about the well established order of "church and "state" in the European Middle Ages. Although there even then were already cracks in that order: the Holy Roman Empire investiturstreit and for instance the Thomas Becket of Henry II...but if i understood it well the "church" prevailed in both cases...

I presume that I am right, when I say: the "church" anointed "the worldly leaders" and in exchange these "worldly leaders" protrected this "church". And that order was supported by the common people up to the Renaissance and then detoriated during the Enlightenment tille there was a separation between "church" and "state" as in France since the law of 1905...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_French_law_on_the_Separation_of_the_Churches_and_the_State


I started already with that difficult relationship in my thread:
http://reshistorica.historyboard.net/t884-ancients-starting-with-gods-and-kingships

But that separation seems even in the 21th century not fully established (one has only to look to Muslim countries)
and there seems even in academic sources to not be a consensus if the separation is a good thing...
even on a quick read from philosophers Wink
http://www.iep.utm.edu/rel-poli/
And the other side? Wink
http://atheism.about.com/od/americachristiannation/a/AmericaChristianNation.htm
And
http://icon.oxfordjournals.org/content/10/1/153.full


But I will start a new thread about the question.

Kind regards, Paul.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Europe of the 12th Century   Tue 10 Jan 2017, 21:51

I wanted to get in the narrative of the competing powers of that time, but see now that it is for me, in the frame of this thread, too diificult to explain it all. After all what the two authors that I mentioned, tried to explain in 800 pages.

But instead I will try to explain by some articles how extraordinary it was in comparison with the former centuries, as one can truly speak of a 12th century renaissance. A time where towns reermerged, where arts got transformed, where the religion was discussed, where people started to think again from a human centred point of view, the start of the universities with layman affinities, the difficult start of the formation of kingdoms...and perhaps one can add a lot more...for instance the reemergence of the bricks after centuries of absence...I discussed it on the old BBC boards with a doctor (in medicine) who was interested and collecto of bricks. perhaps one remembers is name?)...if I recall it well it was brought in by the Cisterciencers...
And perhaps what I had forgotten in my survey was the steady "reconquista" from the iberian peninsula, starting from Asturias...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista
Interesting picture of the reconquista in the following link:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/why-was-the-reconquista-successful-in-the-end.884239/

And an article that highlights all what I wanted to say. It is a pity that there is no author mentioned, nor sources. But in the "about us" it seems a rather honest academic site...but again why no sources of the articles...one has not to believe what is written...but at least this article stays for all what I read from honest sources in the past:
http://history-world.org/dynamic_culture_of_medieval_euro.htm

Kind regards, Paul.
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