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 "Important Discovery"

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LadyinRetirement
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 21 Jan 2015, 17:15

I hope the people running the dig "hold their horses" a little and do a thorough investigation. Alexander the Great is such a well-renowned person that I can understand people WANTING one of the people entombed there to be him, but I wouldn't like to see another "King under the Car Park" kerfuffle (okay this internment site in Greece is not a car park I know).  But with the discovery of (allegedly) Richard III there is still a certain amount of controversy with  Ricardians saying "Oh yes it was" and non-Ricardians saying "Oh no it wasn't".  I know Alexander was a great military leader but he dropped in my estimation when I learned that he had had the doctor of one of his best friends hanged because the said friend had died.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 21 Jan 2015, 18:35

The dig has finished for this year, in the early autumn and won't recommense until next summer, the winter months are used to analyse and test all the finds and all that sort of stuff. Whilst the digging itself last year did proceed with abnormal haste for an excavation of this size there has been absolutely no jumping to conclusions as to who is buried in the tomb from the archaeologists.

The head archaeologist has said that it is possible that the tomb was built for Alexander but it is unlikely that he was ever buried there as he is known to have been buried in Egypt, his mother Olympias (another favoured by some) is also known to be buried elsewhere so unlikely to be her also. But what they didn't expect to find is so many people in there, trying to unravel this one will keep them all more than busy for years to come. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 21 Jan 2015, 20:02

Temperance,

"I know Alexander was a great military leader but he dropped in my estimation when I learned that he had had the doctor of one of his best friends hanged because the said friend had died"

But the event best known that I learned at school being 13, was:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleitus_the_Black

Kind regards, Paul.

PS: I mentioned your politician/religion mix in the "Death camps thread"...
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 21 Jan 2015, 20:05

@Islanddawn wrote:
The dig has finished for this year, in the early autumn and won't recommense until next summer, the winter months are used to analyse and test all the finds and all that sort of stuff. Whilst the digging itself last year did proceed with abnormal haste for an excavation of this size there has been absolutely no jumping to conclusions as to who is buried in the tomb from the archaeologists.

The head archaeologist has said that it is possible that the tomb was built for Alexander but it is unlikely that he was ever buried there as he is known to have been buried in Egypt, his mother Olympias (another favoured by some) is also known to be buried elsewhere so unlikely to be her also. But what they didn't expect to find is so many people in there, trying to unravel this one will keep them all more than busy for years to come. Smile

 Islanddawn,

thank you very much for keeping us up to date with the Amphipolis event. Much interesting all these data.

Kind regards, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Tue 17 Feb 2015, 15:40

A short virtual tour of the Amphipolis tomb:


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ferval
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Sun 01 Mar 2015, 17:07

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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Sun 01 Mar 2015, 17:54

Ferval,

thank you very much for this intriguing history.

Kind regards and with esteem, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Thu 30 Jul 2015, 21:07

Islanddawn,

from a French forum. Someone asks if this article in Greek is about a new development in the history?


http://www.iefimerida.gr/news/204618/i-amfipoli-stin-egkataleipsi-kindyneyei-na-tafei-kato-apo-tin-ammo

Kind regards, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Thu 30 Jul 2015, 23:16

Not quite, Paul - it's an article highlighting the woefully inadequate measures being taken to protect the site from damage due to weathering, erosion and general neglect. A parliament politician has raised the issue lately.

However it is a very pertinent question, and not just in relation to this site. The ongoing economic crisis in Greece will surely have a long term detrimental effect on the preservation, upkeep and protection of many hugely important sites of archaeological, cultural and historical interest - not just in a narrow Greek sense of these terms but internationally and globally. Yet we're not hearing too many international bodies for whom this should be of primary importance piping up with suggestions, or even stating much concern at the minute, let alone advancing solutions. One might well expect such reticence from "guardians" of looted artefacts such as the Parthenon friezes etc. But even apart from bodies like the British Museum the silence internationally is deafening!
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Fri 31 Jul 2015, 21:12

Thank you very much, Nordmann.

Even in Greek...

Kind regards and with esteem, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Thu 01 Oct 2015, 04:37

Sorry Paul, I hadn't seen your message. Yes Nordmann is correct, it is an article about the lack of protection at the site as raised in parliament. And yes, it is due to the crisis and lack of money also the previous government used the excavation for political gain so were pumping money that we didn't have into last year's dig. The new government has more on it's plate with the refugee crisis currently in full swing and on top of that of the financial. However they did have the European Commission here over the summer to inspect the tomb so hopefully there will be something forthcoming to at least do some repairs and protect it from further erosion until we can afford more archaeological work.

In the meantime the head archaeologists revealed their new findings yesterday, or rather confirmation of what they had expected

Katerina Peristeri, the archaeologist in charge of the excavation of the Amphipolis tomb, presented a new finding that may reveal the identity of the individual initially buried in the tomb.
During a conference in Thessaloniki, Peristeri said that her team discovered the monogram of Hephaestion, a general, and the closest friend of Alexander the Great.

She revealed that the monogram of Hefaestion is found in three inscriptions, project contracts for the construction of the monument.

The archaeologist also said that her new findings show that the monument was commissioned by a powerful individual of that era, which could be even Alexander himself.
Moreover, both the chief architect of the site, Mihalis Lefantzis, and lead archaeologist Katerina Peristeri said the monument was designed and supervised by the most renowned architect of the era, Dinokratis.
Both Lefantzis and Peristeri emphasized that evidence is overwhelming that the structure is a stunning example of the early Hellenistic period.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Fri 02 Oct 2015, 04:40

More detail here http://www.thetoc.gr/eng/news/article/amphipolis-a-hero-shrine-to-hephaestion-ordered-by-alexander-the-great

Hephaestion’s monogramme





The inscriptions about 25 cm in height have the signature ANT and the the word “parelavon” carved as wells as a group of letters forming the name of Hephaestion. The signature ANT was used by all the members of the Antigonid dynasty. Here it is attributed to Antigonus the One-Eyed (382-301 BC). The interpretation of the  inscriptions is  given as “I, Antigonus, I received building material for the erection of a monument in honor of Hephaestion.”

It should be noted that Peristeri is receiving criticism from some archaeologists in Greece, but then she always has and sounds more like sour grapes than anything. And all except one who, claims the monument is Roman, have failed to give an alternative explanation it must be said.
Imo Peristeri has been nothing but cautious considering the extreme pressure and difficult circumstances that she was forced to work under, a perfect example of why politics shouldn't become involved in archaeology. 

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/10/01/amphipolis-secret-tomb-dedicated-to-alexanders-best-pal-hephaestion/
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Fri 02 Oct 2015, 19:47

Thank you very much again Islanddawn for this inside information that we as non Greeks have less access to.

Kind regards, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Sat 03 Oct 2015, 15:02

Good news.

Culture ministry approves restorative and protective work for Amphipolis Tomb.

Greece’s Culture ministry announced it has approved a series of projects and actions to immediately secure, restore and promote the ancienttomb of Amphipolis, in northern Greece.
The works planned for the monument include securing the slopes of the hill-mound and completing maintenance work on its sculptures, mosaics and painted decoration, according to the ministry’s statetement, adding that studies to conduct these projects have either already been completed, or are underway.
The ministry has also designated 250,000 euros for the local Ephorate of antiquities for the immediate implementation of these works, while more funds could be secured through a private sponsor.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Mon 19 Oct 2015, 13:20

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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Tue 27 Oct 2015, 09:26

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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Tue 27 Oct 2015, 09:37

You beat me to it Trike. There's some more information and different photos here too:

New York Times : Grave of ‘Griffin Warrior’ at Pylos Could Be a Gateway to Civilizations
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Tue 27 Oct 2015, 10:32

Thanks for those, I'd missed that.

The NYT article is however a good example of the kind of reporting that has me spluttering with indignation and is far too common in news media that really should know better. Take one statement:

The warrior seems to have been something of a dandy. Among the objects accompanying him to the netherworld were a bronze mirror with an ivory handle and six ivory combs.

This is just so loaded with entirely unproven and unjustified assumptions that it annoys me to a quite ridiculous extent.
Grave goods: there's a library full of writing about their function and significance and just to merrily assume that they were his personal possessions and interred for his use in some afterlife is not acceptable. We cannot know why those who buried him placed those items there, there are many possible reasons, and we don't know whether at that time there was any belief in bodily survival after death. There might have been, the Egyptian influence was around, but we don't know.

Then there's the 'dandy' description. Fume! This ascription of bodily ornamentation and care for appearance being a female attribute is another hobby horse of mine and sadly it appears in Paul's quote as well.
“The placement of so many jewels at a man’s grave also challenges the widely held conviction that jewels were mainly used in women’s burials,” the ministry quoted archaeologists Jack L Davis and Sharon R. Stocker from the University of Cincinnati as saying.
Read more at http://newsdaily.com/2015/10/3500-year-old-jewelry-haul-shows-opulence-of-prehistoric-greek-burials/#XSfmswelGvtlLfoQ.99


This is just daft and particularly so when discussing warrior societies when warrior bling is so well recognised.

And then there's mirrors in general. I get quite unnecessarily angry when I read of the mirroe symbol on the Pictish picture stones being interpreted as relating to woman - why for heaven's sake? The metro-sexual man isn't a modern invention. Anyway, have these folk who say that never seen Snow White? Mirrors are not just for personal titivation, they are liminal, portals and deeply shamanistic.

That's probably enough of me moaning but just one more thing.

Archaeologists are looking forward to studying a major unlooted tomb with modern techniques like DNA analysis, which may shed light on the warrior’s origin. DNA, if extractable from the warrior’s teeth, may tell where in Greece he was born.

Nonsense!
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Tue 27 Oct 2015, 12:31

.... well the NYT was slightly better than The Guardian's article, which had a date of 2 centuries BC rather than 2 millenia BC, that kept confusing Mycenaens with Minoans, and visa versa, and had only one photo (upside down). Mad
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Tue 27 Oct 2015, 14:57

I'm glad I didn't read the Guardian's version then. My poor old blood pressure does regularly suffer from this sort of thing but, bad though it is appearing in the press, it's when it comes from a university that I really get steamed up and it's not just Leicester and their poor old nun that does it. Here's a quite recent press release from Reading:

NEW RESEARCH SHOWS SCOTLAND INHABITED 3000 YEARS EARLIER THAN PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT

http://www.reading.ac.uk/news-and-events/releases/PR647509.aspx

No it bluddy doesn't! The article keeps conflating Scotland and Islay and entirely ignores the identical Howburn assemblage excavated in 2009. I know, I dug a lot of it up with my own fair hands. The Howburn stuff is, to be fair, not as well stratified but has been typologically identified as being of that period and is pretty well indistinguishable from the Islay material.

http://www.biggararchaeology.org.uk/pdf_reports/018-023-HowburnFarm.pdf

And breathe.

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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 28 Oct 2015, 10:03

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No doubt in 2,000 years time, some future archaeologist will write a paper on how Ancient Britons made metal containers to hold votive offerings, which were then placed in sacred rivers as tributes to the gods AS-DA and Tes-Co.




......................................................................................................................................................................

Mycenean tomb found on Lesbos;
http://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/unplundered-mycenaean-tomb-unearthed-in.html#.VjCeJ_8nwdV
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 28 Oct 2015, 15:43

http://en.protothema.gr/fournoi-is-the-ancient-shipwreck-capital-of-the-world-22-wrecks-in-one-location-pics/

And the latest is marine archeologists announce the findings of wreckages from all eras in one area in Greece, at Fournoi an island between Samos and Ikaria in the Aegean.

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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 28 Oct 2015, 19:30

There is more information on the wrecks in this article.

http://www.livescience.com/52604-22-ancient-shipwrecks-near-greek-island.html
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 28 Oct 2015, 20:37

The shipwrecks, if properly excavated, should prove a very valuable project indeed since it is a rare opportunity for the same set of resources to be deployed in an effort to garner information (if lucky) about centuries of continuous trade in the area, and an insight from this data into the societies doing the trading. Normally this would be the task of many projects over a lot more time in different locations. The proximity of the potential sites to each other off Fourni should be a real boon.

But the shipwreck capital of the world? Forgive me if I detect a parallel between such a claim and ferval's beef with the approved press releases from Reading University regarding the Islay dig that she mentioned above. Now I can well understand in these times of scant funding etc why some archaeologists will at least go along with "sexing up" their finds when it comes to how they are relayed in initial publicity. Alas this seems to be an ever more necessary trend these days, or at least if it isn't strictly necessary it is still the way PR people, who measure their own success in terms of securement of future commission, want to take things. But even then there should at least be a limit to just how much hyperbole can be applied.

Off hand I can think of no less than five separate offshore sites in Ireland where marine archaeology has been instrumental in enumerating wrecks and all of which probably exceed the twenty two mentioned in the Fourni example. Maybe not wrecks going so far back in antiquity, but tightly grouped just as in Fourni, some very old indeed in the context of their location, and all of which, if properly excavated, would constitute "important discoveries" in an archaeological sense. And I am sure other maritime nations have equally well known accident black spots on their coasts which could account for even more such compactly distributed potential marine archaeological sites of interest which have accumulated over the time shipping and maritime trade has been in the area.

We discussed before in relation to the Amphipolis excavation which started this thread off about the inherent dangers when considerations other than archaeological are brought to bear on such work. At some point - whether the motive is political or economic - it inevitably happens that the chance of valid data being extracted sinks considerably while the other considerations ascend in importance. Most worrying of all is if these considerations, ultimately detrimental to good work in the long run, appear to have become the overriding ones so early in any project.

I hope for the sake of whatever is to be learnt from Fourni that this is not the case there.

However it is almost unthinkable that any excavations in classical Greek sites could ever not be termed "important discoveries". The recent Lesvos and North Cyprus burial excavations, still in progress by Greek and Turkish institutions respectively, have been of particular interest. I was especially taken by the 4th century BCE ivy wreath fashioned from thin gold extracted from the Soloi site in Cyprus - a remarkable state of preservation and a thing of real beauty.



Neither of these digs have needed to be "sexed up". The Turkish dig is secure financially as it is partly funded by UNESCO who have underwritten a commitment to its completion while the Greek work is comparatively inexpensive standard archaeological assessment being done during the construction of a new road and yet just has not failed so far to produce some mouth wateringly "sexy" finds anyway, from fossilised trees and other flora (Lesvos has thrown up petrified forest remains throughout the island) back in May to the hugely significant Mycenaean tomb announced just last week.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Thu 29 Oct 2015, 04:26

The shipwreck capital of the world? I'm not sure if that is mere press spin or that of the archaeologists as the second link doesn't use it in their quotes so it is more than likely a Protothema invention and not one of those involved in the find.  Protothema IS the Daily Wail or Bild of Greece and only to be used until a better English language source is found, and thankfully on this occasion one was.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 02 Dec 2015, 21:21

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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Thu 03 Dec 2015, 15:29

I don't know much more than I've read in the press Paul, but this article is by far the most comprehensive (and great piccies too) I've seen so far. The tomb is certainly an exciting find!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/27/science/a-warriors-grave-at-pylos-greece-could-be-a-gateway-to-civilizations.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Sat 05 Dec 2015, 21:09

Thank you Islanddawn for this link.

Kind regards, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 09 Dec 2015, 16:03

Excavations on Cyprus support lost kingdom of Ledroi;

Nicosia Dig
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 13 Jan 2016, 03:45

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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 13 Jan 2016, 19:04

@Islanddawn wrote:
Quite an exciting (and rare) find http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/bronze-age-stilt-houses-unearthed-in-east-anglian-fens

 Islanddawn,

I just yesterday saw on my French forum an announcement by a certain Calame about an exiting find in Britain. She or he mentioned this link that I had selected to put it overhere...but you are the first Wink ...
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-35280290?SThisFB

Kind regards, your friend Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Sat 16 Jan 2016, 04:07

This interesting and informative article could go in a number of threads because it covers a wide range of archaeology from across London, although mainly on the history uncovered during the cross-rail construction. But for convenience sake I will place it here

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2016/02/artifacts-found-under-london-archaeology-text?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=link_fbp20160112ngm-london&utm_campaign=Content&sf18646078=1
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Sat 16 Jan 2016, 21:15

Thank you very much for this link, Islanddawn. I read it with great interest.

Kind regards from your friend, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Sat 13 Feb 2016, 10:42

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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Thu 17 Mar 2016, 18:47

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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Sat 11 Jun 2016, 22:16

Thank you for these links, Islanddawn.

What about the discovery near Petra?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/09/petra-buried-monument-discovered-jordan

Kind regards from your friend Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:04

Finds from this summer's dive at Elgin's ship The Mentor wreck site

Diving archaeologists find treasures in sunken ship carrying the Parthenon marbles to Britain

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/archaeology/1.750272?
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PostSubject: Re: "Important Discovery"   Wed 02 Nov 2016, 22:05

Thank you very much for this link Islanddawn.

I learned from it, especially about the Parthenon's earlier history, that I didn't know.

Kind regards, Paul.
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