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 The Tumbleweed Suite

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Minette Minor
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Sun 08 Jan 2017, 01:50

And of course Tudor brick work should be no more than two and half inches, ask Dan Cruckshank, he is so wonderful. But there is something I've been dying to ask about the block busting, "Wolf Hall". 

I actually bought the book and then threw it aside almost immediately. I'm never keen on reading a work of History by an English novelist but...how does Thomas Cromwell's nasty Welsh relation actually walk in. "a Welsh way"? I wanted to go to Haye just to ask this. Why rub this in which she does, after the first chapter? And how does one walk in a, "Welsh way"? Are walks unique to nationalities? Oh look there 's Sven the Swede lurching to the left again! Only to be expected. Oh look there's Rupert the Malingerer of Havistock with his usual middle hop, only to be followed by Rufus with his unorthodox Cornish gait followed by Sally the Saxon is she really making a bid for the sea? 
This is what happens when you have Mantels, ..."I'll explain. My voice may sound as though I've been eating Turkish Delight all day but I have the gift of prophecy so follow me...I want you to imagine (as I have done) what may have taken place during this dramatic moment. I have no idea and neither have you what actually happened and so we can all just guess but I don't need facts or support, just...listen to my construct." English Lit and History are at odds but it's wonderful knowing people like you are here. Really and apologies.
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Minette Minor
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Sun 08 Jan 2017, 02:02

I think you are wonderful SST, Smile always have. Kind, brainy and thoughtful Shocked and a solid and almost embarrassing endless mine of information when I can barely cut and paste. study You know your stuff! God you are good! Wink You always have been.   Smile
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Minette Minor
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Sun 08 Jan 2017, 02:47

Looking at these wonderful pictures there is something of David(e) about them? Or perhaps not. So wonderfully melodramatic and bad...But always better than Tracey Eminem and thingy Damien Hurst! Of the wealth and the diamond encrusted skull. 
The Perfect example of the Emperors New Clothes.
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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Sun 08 Jan 2017, 10:58

My copy of Wolf Hall wasn't illustrated, so I'll just have to take your word for it, Minette.

Or are you perchance referring to the site's smileys in your previous post? In which case you are quite correct of course, as all were commissioned by myself purely on the basis of their aesthetic subtleties and draughtsmanship. As is evident ...

run

dustbunny dust bunny

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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Sun 08 Jan 2017, 11:12

By the way, I notice you get all high and mighty when Welsh perambulatory stylistic aggregation is (quite reasonably in my opinion having witnessed Welsh rugby fans over many years) alluded to as a national character trait by English hysterians. However not a dicky bird from you, I see, when Egyptians get the same treatment!



Or Saath Lahndaners, for that matter ...

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Minette Minor
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Mon 09 Jan 2017, 15:30

Ok fair cop norddman! I'd simply like to know if I walk as a Welsh person should...a rolling gait or a meaningful stride? I don't want to let the side down...
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Meles meles
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Mon 09 Jan 2017, 16:33

I'm just slightly shocked to see Wolfie Smith doing a very bourgeois, yet very credible, song-and-dance routine! But at least he hasn't let the side down entirely ... Lambeth, like Tooting, is still saarf of the river.

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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Tue 10 Jan 2017, 10:31

Minette wrote:
I'd simply like to know if I walk as a Welsh person should

There are many in England who would maintain that this would be "westwards". Smile

I am actually in agreement with you about Hilary Mantel's writing style. Besides the rather ill-thought-out similes etc (I just take them for granted with modern authors) I found the "in his head" perspective a trifle off-putting. It's a rather American style, actually, so on that basis alone seemed a little out of place in Crum's head. It's ok for trivial incidents such as his dad beating the living crap out of him in the opening chapter, but thereafter when he's toying with complex inner conflicts regarding faith, Anne Boleyn's knickers and career advancement, it all gets rather "so what-ish" from the reader's point of view. You feel like screaming at the lad to just get on with it and decide something for f*ck's sake, and stop boring us with all the mental preambles (which in fact the real Cromwell probably never encountered much anyway). In that sense the BBC series was better - an odd pained wince from Rylance was enough to convey half a page of mental dithering in Mantel's book. In fact when you saw him wince you grew quickly to realise his next utterance would be a doozie, and he rarely let us down. Well done the scriptwriter!

Rylance winced a lot in that programme, didn't he?
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Wed 11 Jan 2017, 09:06

@nordmann wrote:




I am actually in agreement with you about Hilary Mantel's writing style. Besides the rather ill-thought-out similes etc (I just take them for granted with modern authors) I found the "in his head" perspective a trifle off-putting. It's a rather American style, actually, so on that basis alone seemed a little out of place in Crum's head. It's ok for trivial incidents such as his dad beating the living crap out of him in the opening chapter, but thereafter when he's toying with complex inner conflicts regarding faith, Anne Boleyn's knickers and career advancement, it all gets rather "so what-ish" from the reader's point of view. You feel like screaming at the lad to just get on with it and decide something for f*ck's sake, and stop boring us with all the mental preambles (which in fact the real Cromwell probably never encountered much anyway). In that sense the BBC series was better - an odd pained wince from Rylance was enough to convey half a page of mental dithering in Mantel's book. In fact when you saw him wince you grew quickly to realise his next utterance would be a doozie, and he rarely let us down. Well done the scriptwriter



What utter nonsense.


Minette, I am very glad you are back, but I do recommend you try again with your reading of Wolf Hall (and Bring Up the Bodies). Mantel is an excellent writer, and her books should be neither tossed aside lightly, nor should they be thrown with great force - after a mere chapter or two. Try reading the whole book - it helps with critical assessment.

But Eng. Lit. folk and History folk can never be friends - we are like the farmers and the cowmen in Oklahoma!.







PS  
Minette wrote:
...Rufus with his unorthodox Cornish gait...
 Smile

They do walk funny in Bude, it's true. No love lost for the Cornish down here, I'm afraid.

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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Wed 11 Jan 2017, 10:09

Rylancette wrote:
What utter nonsense.

No it's not. Take this for example as a way of saying Cromwell found out it was just coming up to twelve o'clock.

Creeping Christ? he thinks. What does he mean? His head turns sideways, his hair rests in his own vomit, the dog barks, Walter roars, and bells peal out across the water. He feels a sensation of movement, as if the filthy ground has become the Thames. It gives and sways beneath him; he lets out his breath, one great final gasp. You’ve done it this time, a voice tells Walter. But he closes his ears, or God closes them for him. He is pulled downstream, on a deep black tide.

The next thing he knows, it is almost noon.


If I remember the scene in the programme there was a LOT of wincing going on there, though it must be said not by Rylance but by young Simon Bottomley (who had the unenviable job of anticipating how the older version of his character interprets character acting).

Did you know they run lessons in Cornwall so you too can learn to walk like them? Riverdance it's not!

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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Wed 11 Jan 2017, 10:35

Good grief - I've seen more abandoned frenzy at a Church of England tea-dance.

They're weighed down with all those pasties (or pasty's as they will insist on putting in their adverts) they keep stuffing themselves with.

I'm watching The Young Pope starring Jude Law at the moment. It's excellent - very surreal and funny - sort of The Sopranos at the Vatican. Might start a Popes Various and Vatican Shenanigans Assorted thread - but then again, perhaps not.

Has anyone else seen it? Law's costumes have been designed by Giorgio Armani and they are superb: he (Law, not Armani) even looks utterly cool in his silly papal hat. I didn't know the papal tiara was a bit like a helmet. The opening credits are brilliant - Devlin playing All Along the Watchtower, plus various art works, plus a travelling comet - I absolutely love it:


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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Wed 11 Jan 2017, 11:37

It's on my list. Law isn't a wincer, is he? Smile

My favourite pope was Rex Harrison as Julius II in the film where he commissioned Ben Hur to paint his ceiling. A proper pope - all battle hardened, scarred, Shakespearian, dressed in tin and psychopathic.

Though all the popes in The Shoes of the Fisherman were great too - Zorba as the new pope, Cassius as the old pope, and even Rumpole of the Bailey as would-be pope.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:18





Ben Hur: It does look rather nice, doesn't it? Always worth shelling out that bit extra for Farrow and Ball Estate Emulsion.



PS No wincing from Law so far, but I'm only on Episode 5.

PPS I'm very confused by the kangaroo.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Wed 11 Jan 2017, 21:32

Lost again my message Twisted Evil
Start again:

Temperance,

reading for the moment: "The Lady Elizabeth" from Alison Weir. Read also from her some weeks ago: "Eleanor of Aquitaine". She is also a historian, so I suppose her work will be historical accurate with some own interpretations...
What is new to me that she approachs the "female" sex from the point of view of a woman. That's interesting to me, while I up to now read hundreds of novels written by men (perhaps more novels up to now written by men than women?) and every time the sex was approached from the male attitude...From what I read in these two novels Alison Weir does a good job, and she is certainly better and not so long winded as Hilary Mantel in her work about the French revolution...

But Temperance why I "interpellate" you, is for a word that I met in the Elizabeth book and that was familiar to me, namely: "sweet sister temperance" I can't find it back in the hundreds of pages, but it seems to be a term, which was used in the time...between sisters?...as a cosy name?... from where comes "your" sweet sister Temperance?...

And then some new words as "codpiece"...if it wasn't for the context..and if I hadn't a vague rememberance of a discussion overhere...

As ever your faithfully Paul.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 08:43

Paul, Sweet Sister Temperance was the affectionate nickname given by Edward VI to his sister Elizabeth. The Duchess of Somerset (the wife of the Lord Protector, Edward Seymour), who was not a fan of Elizabeth, apparently snorted in derision when she first heard Edward refer to the young princess as SST. Demanding the reason for this preposterous new name, the arrogant Duchess was told by the young king: "Temperance is a fair and godly thing in women. I would more of them had it."

Which was a  delicious little dig at his Auntie Anne who was, by all accounts, an insufferable woman. Possibly he was also having a go at his other sister, Mary, who was already digging her heels in about going to her old Mass.

I notice that, whereas Priscilla has been canonised, I have merely been given a new name that makes me sound like a pyjama fabric.
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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 09:45

St Rylancette of Wince wrote:
I notice that, whereas Priscilla has been canonised, I have merely been given a new name that makes me sound like a pyjama fabric.

I didn't canonise Priscilla. I think she fired herself.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 10:18

@nordmann wrote:
St Rylancette of Wince wrote:
I notice that, whereas Priscilla has been canonised, I have merely been given a new name that makes me sound like a pyjama fabric.

I didn't canonise Priscilla. I think she fired herself.



Well, someone has certainly shot himself or herself in the foot: not quite sure who.

Better to be a pyjama fabric than a blessed martyr, I suppose - St. Tammy Wynette comes to mind. The lyrics of Stand By Your Man  still make me want to throw up. Was this utter tosh really written by a woman?

But we have all been a teeny-weeny bit sensitive at times about silly names and titles, haven't we? You should revert to being Dictator and get everything back to happy normality.


Last edited by Temperance on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 14:57; edited 1 time in total
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 14:18

I wrote:
Well, someone has certainly shot himself or herself in the foot: not quite sure who.


Probably me.
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Meles meles
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 16:15

I'd be very careful about admitting to shooting yourself in the foot. In WW1 doing so could get you on a charge of faking a wound in order to get invalided out of the conflict with a "ticket the Blightey". But that way usually led to a court-martial on a charge of cowardice, and all too often ended in a dawn rendez-vous with the firing squad.


Last edited by Meles meles on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 17:20; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Court-martial not marshal & thanks for picking my nits Nielsen)
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 16:46

Oh heck - had better delete above.

No coward soul is mine - just a bit of a woolly one. Good job in this weather too. It's freezing here - only one degree, blowing a gale and shintry wowers all day. It's absolutely horrible out there. Going to snow properly tonight they tell us. The whole of England is now in total panic, as ever when snow is forecast. Some wonderful headlines today. This is the most scary:

SNOW HELL COMING: Whole of UK to be trapped in -10C freezing DOUBLE VORTEX for a week.

Crikey.

Lots of hot chocolate and last two episodes of Young Pope tonight, I think.


Last edited by Temperance on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 16:55; edited 1 time in total
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Nielsen
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 16:53

Deleted post - because of being in the wrong place.
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Islanddawn
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 18:21

@Temperance wrote:
Oh heck - had better delete above.

No coward soul is mine - just a bit of a woolly one. Good job in this weather too. It's freezing here - only one degree, blowing a gale and shintry wowers all day. It's absolutely horrible out there. Going to snow properly tonight they tell us. The whole of England is now in total panic, as ever when snow is forecast. Some wonderful headlines today. This is the most scary:

SNOW HELL COMING: Whole of UK to be trapped in -10C freezing DOUBLE VORTEX for a week.

Crikey.

Lots of hot chocolate and last two episodes of Young Pope tonight, I think.


About time the snow moved on somewhere else, we've been trapped under snow and -10C in Greece for two weeks now. You are welcome to it and enjoy! Smile In the meantime we can look forward to a balmy +10C for a little while at least.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 19:23

@Temperance wrote:
Paul, Sweet Sister Temperance was the affectionate nickname given by Edward VI to his sister Elizabeth. The Duchess of Somerset (the wife of the Lord Protector, Edward Seymour), who was not a fan of Elizabeth, apparently snorted in derision when she first heard Edward refer to the young princess as SST. Demanding the reason for this preposterous new name, the arrogant Duchess was told by the young king: "Temperance is a fair and godly thing in women. I would more of them had it."

Which was a  delicious little dig at his Auntie Anne who was, by all accounts, an insufferable woman. Possibly he was also having a go at his other sister, Mary, who was already digging her heels in about going to her old Mass.

I notice that, whereas Priscilla has been canonised, I have merely been given a new name that makes me sound like a pyjama fabric.

Now I see Sweet Sister Temperance where your "nom de plume" came from...after all those years Wink ...
And yes all what you said was also in the Alison novel...at least that too seems to be historical...once one starts to be suspicious... Wink

Kind regards from Paul.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 19:36

@Temperance wrote:
Oh heck - had better delete above.

No coward soul is mine - just a bit of a woolly one. Good job in this weather too. It's freezing here - only one degree, blowing a gale and shintry wowers all day. It's absolutely horrible out there. Going to snow properly tonight they tell us. The whole of England is now in total panic, as ever when snow is forecast. Some wonderful headlines today. This is the most scary:

SNOW HELL COMING: Whole of UK to be trapped in -10C freezing DOUBLE VORTEX for a week.

Crikey.

Lots of hot chocolate and last two episodes of Young Pope tonight, I think.

Here on the Belgian coast they are expecting a storm flood of the 1953 scale...
http://www.floodsite.net/juniorfloodsite/html/en/student/thingstoknow/hydrology/1953flood.html

I was there in Bredene, near Ostend, now some 64 years ago...

Kind regards, Paul.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Thu 12 Jan 2017, 20:28

On the east coast of England too, Paul. We are silly about snow panics in England, but anxiety about a North Sea storm surge is most definitely not silly. Things could get very grim later tonight.

ID - I had no idea it could get so cold in Greece of all places.
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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Fri 13 Jan 2017, 08:26

I tend to listen to the BBC and RTE radio news of a morning, and today with snow descending on both septic isles it was interesting to contrast the coverage (news-, not snow-).

On the BBC a rather frantic and breathless reporter standing "literally" knee-deep somewhere on a hill in Wales described being assaulted by "furious flurries" (lovely image, that) and how it had been predicted that the inevitable flurry-related mortalities will so swamp the emergency and health services that it could "literally" bring the country to its knees. Rather curiously, she added that "the RAF were on standby", presumably to launch air strikes against the frenzied mobs of rabidly snow-blinded Welshmen rampaging through Llandudno on their knee caps.

On the Irish radio a similarly placed reporter in a hill-farm in Clare, when asked what the worst ramifications had been so far, replied that farmers were reporting it was now very difficult to see their sheep.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Fri 13 Jan 2017, 09:46

@nordmann wrote:
...flurry-related mortalities...


Very Happy

This has got me wondering how the Met Office defines a snow flurry. When does a snow flurry become a snow shower or even a snow fall? I consulted Wiki for further information and found this. Useful to know in the present challenging conditions. I feel more prepared now.

When flurries accumulate, they become a layer of snow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_flurry




Morrison's car park earlier today.
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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Fri 13 Jan 2017, 10:21

In Norway the colloquial term for a flurry is fluskrasnø or faukersnø. Fluskrasnø, as opposed to umsnø, "kisses" your face and it doesn't actually fall, instead it "fyklers" or "fluskrers fauker" (terms not with a parallel in English which describe a wandering and peripatetic descent from lofty origin into banality - good for describing light snow flurries as well as politicians' answers to difficult questions, Res Historica discussion threads, England football managers, the USA etc).

Umsnø on the other hand breaks your nose, bowls you over, and dumps six feet of white shit on you before you have a chance to stand up again.

Curiously neither of these are necessarily the worst - by far the most Norwegian vitriol is reserved for the hated valleklessesnø, that horrible mixture of snow and rain which is called "sørpe" when it lands and is seemingly designed by Thor (he gets the blame) primarily to dissolve the leather in your shoes while simultaneously breaking your coccyx (which I assume also explains the scarcity of cows in Norway, or at least why the surviving examples walk funny).

After snow has fallen we "vabba" through it if it's very deep, "grynne" through it if it's only up to our necks, "knegrynne" through it if we're like the BBC reporter in Wales, "base" through it if it's slippy, "snysa" through it if we "base" while swallowing some of it, and "vodla" through it if we've perfected some kind of snow-swimming technique. Those of us with tennis rackets or planks tied to our feet can of course simply "løype" over it while hopefully dodging the next "umsnø" assault, a lack of success in which endeavour is described as having been rightly "fauked" (like in English actually, or as applies to the whole of Wales for that matter according to the BBC reporter this morning).
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Sat 14 Jan 2017, 12:59

Well, yet again England has survived: it is still jolly nippy (is there a Norwegian equivalent of "nippy"?), but the North Sea has been contained, thank goodness. Essex lives on.

The nasty cold weather has kept me in and bingeing on my boxed set of The Young Pope, which I have now finished. My initial enthusiam has waned a bit. The series is undoubtedly beautifully located (the Vatican is very lovely - all those nice pictures and other arty things everywhere), stunningly photographed and thoughtfully acted, but I have concluded that, despite all the impressive quotations from Spinoza, St. Augustine and St. Ignatius of Antioch, the actual screenplay is actually a bit overblown and intellectually hollow. To use a vulgar Northern expression, is this production all fur coat and no knickers (or, as the Americans would say, all hat and no cattle)? The screenplay is superficially clever - and very funny at times - but where is it taking us? I'm baffled by the main character. This ultra-conservative, dazzlingly photogenic, young Pope Pius XIII - what or who is he meant to be? The second coming of Jesus, or just a different kind of Nero - holy, chaste, undoubtedly sincere, but still completely bonkers? A Young Roman Catholic Emperor, but one with with a Messiah complex? I was pondering all this last night and that quote from Oscar Wilde came into my head: "The worst vice of a fanatic is his sincerity". Mmm.

Watching this programme has made me realise how little I know about the Popes, the Roman Curia and the Vatican - the whole Roman Catholic caboodle (the Roman Empire Season Two?), the set-up that has played - and continues to play - such an important part in the history of the Western world. I want to start a thread on this but, to be honest, hesitate to do so. The site has very few regular posters now, and I worry that the religious discussions that a few of us have indulged in here over this last year or so have helped contribute to the decline of interest in Res Historica as a discussion forum. Have we few bored everyone to death?

But then if we don't get snotty with one another (and why should we?) such a discussion about the history of the Popes could be illuminating and informative - no?

Then again, perhaps we just need more moggy posts (I've done my fair share of those, too).

PS Someone killed the Pope's kangaroo. Who did this and why? Was the poor animal simply one of the "dream" characters? I haven't a clue.


Last edited by Temperance on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 14:10; edited 1 time in total
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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Sat 14 Jan 2017, 13:39

Temp wrote:
is there a Norwegian equivalent of "nippy"?

"Kjølig", or "frisk" if one is a glass-half-full person.

Discussion forum participation is down generally from its levels a few years ago, I have read. Res Historica in fact has recently overtaken its closest rival among forumotion hosted sites, a happy-clappy Christian affair which I will not promote with a link from here, and which kept us in second place for the last few years. In terms of viewing figures recorded by Google Analytics this site has rocketed upwards over the last year or so while its onsite activity has decreased to about half of where it was last year. While unfortunate that members seem less willing to contribute, in the general context of modern trends towards less thematic social media sites it's actually doing ok.

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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Tumbleweed Suite   Sat 14 Jan 2017, 13:43

That's good: I am overjoyed your site has overtaken the other lot. How gloriously ironic.
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