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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: British holidays   Sat 27 May 2017, 20:25

Didn't even knew the translation of our local "Hemelvaartdag" in English...and after check it turned out that it was the French "ascension"...
Now that I knew that it excisted, I supposed that it was now a long weekend in Britain too. I thought that the Protestans hadn't that all, but now thinking about it, it was something against the "saints" that they had? Hence no Toussaint (all saints) that they will not have I suppose.
Got interested in the holidays in Britain...it seems to be a complex matter Wink ...
https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/uk/
BTW. And what is observance.
In Belgium, we have one set of legal holidays and if it is on a Sunday we have it the next Monday.
https://www.wettelijke-feestdagen.be/

How do you that in Britain seemingly according to religion, to region, and all...? All different holiday schemes? And what if three quarters of a factory is Anglican/Protestant and the rest is Muslim? A lot of questions to this poor Belgian soul...

Kind regards, Paul.
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LadyinRetirement
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Sun 28 May 2017, 12:26

PR, I don't know if the linked Wikipedia article on bank holidays will be of any assistance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_holiday I was surprised that the Bank Holidays Act 1871 was introduced by banker John Lubbock because I had always thought the father of the Pankhursts (campaigners for the extension of the right to vote to women in the UK) had something to do with it [well, there is an expression 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing']. I wonder if the (British) 1960s Liberal politician, Eric Lubbock was any relation of John Lubbock? I had quite forgotten about the emergency bank holiday of 1968. Bank Holidays were further refined in the UK in 1971. I can remember the August bank holiday being changed to the last Monday in August. I hadn't realised that there was a "Battle of the Boyne Day" [not sure if that's what it's called] in northern Ireland. I think what happens with different religions is that people take what are holy days to them out of their annual leave allowance. When I was a child I went to a Catholic school from age 6 and we used to have the "holy days of obligation" off. Nowadays the kids go to school on the "holy days of obligation" unless they coincide with a public holiday anyway (Christmas Day for example and August 15 [Assumption] fall in school holidays anyhow). What will happen is that sometimes the kids (at a Catholic school) will be taken over to the local Catholic church on a holy day of obligation to attend mass there or a mass will be held in the school. To be honest, that way the kids are more likely to attend mass on the day - less likelihood of it being forgotten. Some of the days of obligation if they fall close to a weekend are transferred to the nearest Sunday - I can't remember which ones do and which ones don't. New Year's Day isn't a day of obligation (as in obligation to go to mass) where I live anymore - hasn't been for quite some time but January 6th (12th night, epiphany) still is. I can remember (nothing to do with going to mass here) when firms would largely open for the few days between the Christmas/Boxing Day and New Year but so many people took those days off anyway that it has become the general trend now for places (not shops etc obviously) to stay closed during the period from Christmas to the New Year. Some firms do open then with a 'skeleton' staff.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Sun 28 May 2017, 22:07

Lady, thanks for the survey. Will answer tomorrow.
PS. Some difference between bank holidays and public holidays?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_the_United_Kingdom


Kind regards, Paul.
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Caro
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Mon 29 May 2017, 05:36

I don't know about RC holidays, but in NZ we have more imaginative names than "bank holiday" and nearly all our official holidays commemorate something.  We have Christmas, Boxing Day, New Year and the day after New Year, Easter Friday and Sunday and (I think) Monday.  These days are at the same time as England's though in a totally different and inappropriate season.  Christmas dinners with turkey and plum puddings are still quite usual (and we have all the trimmings here, though not, of course, Brussels sprouts since they are out of season.  Here we are more likely to splash out time and money on peas to pod, rather than just buying the frozen ones.  And have fresh fruit salad for afters. 

Then we have our national day, Waitangi Day, 6th February and Anzac Day on 25th April (just last year the government brought in legislation that if that fell on a weekend day we would get the Monday off), Queen's Birthday on the first Monday in June (not the present Queen's actual birthday, I think it was George V's); then no more over winter just when a holiday to stay in the warmth all day would be welcome, next one is Labour Day on the Monday closest to the 25th October.  That date might not be quite right, but near enough.  That's our eleven official days. 

Of course schools have longer, and are split into four terms (it was three when I was at school) usually incorporating Easter.  With two weeks between three of them, and about 8 weeks at Christmas, starting again near the beginning of February.  Most businesses close down from before Christmas till the middle of January.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Mon 29 May 2017, 21:37

Caro  and Lady in retirement,

thanks for the list of the NZ "official" holidays. BTW: What are RC holidays? You have to have some patience with an ignorant from the European peninsula...
Too late this evening...I will comment to you both tomorrow...

Kind regards to both of you, Paul.
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Caro
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Tue 30 May 2017, 00:08

Hi Paul,  RC is shorthand for Roman Catholic.  NZ was mostly settled by Presbyterians down south and Anglicans elsewhere, though some Roman Catholic Irish people went to the West Coast and elsewhere.  As did people from Croatia (then referred to as Dalmatians - Dallies for short).  Some Chinese came to the goldfields.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Wed 31 May 2017, 22:04

Caro wrote:
Hi Paul,  RC is shorthand for Roman Catholic.  NZ was mostly settled by Presbyterians down south and Anglicans elsewhere, though some Roman Catholic Irish people went to the West Coast and elsewhere.  As did people from Croatia (then referred to as Dalmatians - Dallies for short).  Some Chinese came to the goldfields.


Caro,

of course RC...I could have guessed it myself...from those Southern Netherlands where after the split of the Low Countries during the Eigthy Years War the Jesuits tried to convert the souls again to RC in the South (the later Belgium).
Yes in Belgium the public holidays about religion are defenitely integral RC.
I wondered how it was in Germany with its Protestant/RC population. When one travels in Germany at the entry of a "municipality?" (in German: Ortsgemeinde) one sees mostly a roadsign Catholic masses/Protestant masses on these and these days...
https://www.officeholidays.com/countries/germany/

It seems to be depending on the "Länder" (federal states). For instance Bavaria is an integral RC state...I guess Mecklenburg-Vorpommern in the former East Germany is an integral Protestant state...

Perhaps in the Netherlands there is also a difference between the Protestant North and for instance the more RC Brabant and Limburg?
Will investigate it tomorrow.

Kind regards, Paul.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Wed 31 May 2017, 22:13

Caro,

about the Netherlands:
https://www.officeholidays.com/countries/netherlands/index.php


BTW: If someone is interested by the "rest"...on internet one finds it all Wink ...
https://www.officeholidays.com/countries/index.php


Kind regards, Paul.
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Caro
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Wed 31 May 2017, 23:28

Oh yes, looking at that, I realise I had forgotten the various provincial holidays, one for each area, and not often able to be named even by the residents.  When we lived on the West Coast of NZ there was never agreement about which day it was, and here on the border of Southland and Otago, there is similar confusion.  They just come when they come; I can't even name the month Otago's anniversary is.  They are public holidays though and businesses and shops and schools will close.  (Although schools often like to pop these holidays on the end of others.)  Schools have to be open for so many half-days of the year, but there is some lee-way about when. 

This isn't very historical, but I don't know the historical basis for anniversary days.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Thu 01 Jun 2017, 15:38

The holidays in May - either May Day itself or the later Whitsun holiday (which sometimes falls in June) - have often been the time of very serious clashes with the authorities in England. I remember the  "Battle of Brighton" - Whitsun 1964 - and I can still recall my father's horrified rant about it all.



Two rival youth cultures that clashed several times at Brighton in the 1960s, the most infamous occasion being the so-called 'Battle of Brighton' at the Whitsun holiday, 17-18 May 1964. The Brighton police were prepared for trouble as there had been clashes at Clacton and Hastings at Easter, but the town was invaded by up to 3,000 youths. The leather-jacketed 'Rockers' arrived on their motor-bikes on the Sunday morning, but were challenged in the afternoon by a much larger number of the neatly-dressed 'Mods' on their motor-scooters.


Then there was the great riot in 1517, when London apprentices led a mob - egged on by others who should have known better - which ended in extremely serious civil disturbance - a terrible event that went down in history as  "the Evil May Day". This is from the St. Paul's Cathedral website:



But amidst spring celebrations, May Day also has long associations with workers, protest, demonstration and rioting.

And St Paul's Cathedral was right at the heart of one of the earliest of these occasions, now known as the Evil May Day Riots of 1517.

As in centuries before, May Day was a holiday in the Tudor calendar under the reign of King Henry VIII. But in the weeks leading up to May in 1517, tension was rising in the City against the many foreigners who had made London their home.

The tension was instigated by a broker named John Lincoln, who had managed to catch the ear of a Dr Bell, due to preach from St Paul's Cross, in the shadow of the Cathedral. Having been convinced by Lincoln that the woes of the economy were caused by the foreigners in the City, Bell stood at Paul's Cross and called for all "Englishmen to cherish and defend themselves, and to hurt and grieve aliens for the common weal."

Spurred by these words, tension amongst City dwellers built over a number of weeks before a sudden and violent riot broke on May Day itself. A mob of more than a thousand men congregated on Cheapside and moved through the City looting and destroying all property they suspected to belong to foreigners.

This riot was aimed mainly at French immigrants, but Jews, Dutch and other groups seen as an economic threat were also targeted.

After almost five hours of rioting on that single night, tensions were quelled and calm restored. Hundreds were arrested, many injured, but none killed.




Very near where I live in Devon, the equivalent of a Tudor "Spring Bank Holiday" - Whit Monday 1549 - saw what might have been the beginnings of a civil war - the Great Prayer Book Rebellion. A holiday, plus too much sun and cider - plus growing discontent over the imposition of the new "extreme" Protestant Book of Common Prayer - and all hell broke out in the South West. Trouble had actually been brewing for some time. The rebellion was savagely put down, but not before several battles including a siege of Exeter. Several thousand rebels from Devon and Cornwal lost their lives





Looks idyllic, doesn't it, but you can see the church  where the trouble started. William Hellyons, the farmer named on the plaque, was run through with a pitchfork on the steps of the church house. The house and steps are still there.
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Vizzer
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Sun 04 Jun 2017, 18:37

Caro wrote:
more imaginative names than "bank holiday"

This was generally the case too in England, Wales and Ireland from 1871 (when the 'bank holidays' were formally introduced) until 1971. As Temp has mentioned we had Whitsuntide (or specifically Whit Monday) which was a movable feast falling seven weeks after Easter. This was standardised in 1971 as the last Monday in May and renamed the Spring Bank Holiday. In southern Ireland it was standardised in 1973 as the first Monday in June being renamed the June Holiday. So this year (2017) Whit Monday and the June Holiday coincide there.

Quote :
Queen's Birthday on the first Monday in June (not the present Queen's actual birthday, I think it was George V's)

I've always found this to be one of the most puzzling aspects of the British Empire and (later) Commonwealth of Nations. One would have thought that the Queen's Birthday would have been an ideal opportunity to bring the whole entity together. Yet we find that the Queen's Birthday is marked on different days in different countries and not only that but it's even marked on separate days in the various states of Australia. And in the UK it's not even a public holiday. So far from being a unifying celebration across Her Majesty's realms, the concept of the Queen's Birthday is more like something of a damp squib. It seems that the royalists are their own worst enemies when it comes to this. But - hey - what do I know, I'm just an English republican.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Sun 04 Jun 2017, 21:51

Vizzer,

"But - hey - what do I know, I'm just an English republican. Wink " And Vizzer "English" or "British"? Rolling Eyes
I, when I think logically, am also a Belgian republican. But alas, after all, especially with the present king, it is perhaps better for Belgium for the time being. And in the Low Countries, the present Benelux, it are all kings and a duke...
And it is a bit dangerous to shout "Vive la République" in Belgium...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_Lahaut

Kind regards from Paul.
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Caro
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Mon 05 Jun 2017, 01:41

Well, I, on the other hand, am a strong monarchist!  I look at the USA and shudder.  That is what can happen if you rely on the public to choose your leader.  I felt that even before Donald Trump. I'm not a very good democrat.

I looked up the birthdates of earlier kings and what I thought seemed to be right - we took George V's birthday for our QB day, and kept it.  But it might equally be that we just kept the English date, which seems to be to give people a summer holiday.  (Here in NZ we have plenty of days off in summer, but hardly any in winter, so we have a long wintry time with no days off.  Except for us retired people, who have every day off and get muddled about what the day actually is!)
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: British holidays   Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:27

Caro wrote:
Except for us retired people, who have every day off and get muddled about what the day actually is!)

Caro,

even during kidney dialysis (three times a week four hours each) had a busy time outside the hospital. And next year 75 and I am nearly sure, now with my new kidney (no dialysis anymore), it will be again business as usual. Caro, I know about your situation and understand it all, but now after all the tests in which I was confirmed completely healthy I want to go for another 26 years and keep it busy and healthy...
I hope that nobody of our panel, especially our Nordmann, don't envy it Wink ...

Yes and Caro, just some weeks after I shared the sorrows of our British "subjects"! from over the Channel, I have to do it again about the terror attack of the day before yesterday.
British compatriots from the European continent I feel with you in these sad days.

Kind regards from Paul.
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