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 The Elephant in the Room.

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Gilgamesh of Uruk
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 25 Sep 2014, 01:30

Paul : Britain would have been predisposed to favour anything which prevented the Scheldt estuary falling into the hands of any of the Great Powers of Europe, ic had been a settled part of policy since the time of Elizabeth I - that's where Parma's army was waiting to be collected by Medina Sidonia at the time of the First Armada, and Napoleon described it as "a pistol aimed at the heart of England". I invite you to consider Churchill's attempt in 1914 to use the Royal Marines and surplus Naval reserves (hastily converted into infantry) to hold Antwerp.
edited - I cor spell rite.
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Nielsen
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 25 Sep 2014, 05:16

PaulRyckier wrote:
Triceratops,

"Reading about the Belgian Revolution, if Talleyrand's proposals hade been accepted, there would never have been a Kingdom of Belgium;"


...

Gospel according to Paul.

Ethnicities, nations even individuals have to live in mutual understandement and in respect for each other for the "good" of the whole (and I know all the difficulties lies in the definition of what is "good"). And I for instance don't find it fair that one group has to do all the "work" for the community, while another group, being able to "work" subsist on the others' "work" (and I know all the difficulties lies in the definition of "work"). As an inhabitant of Belgium I know about the problematic, but that don't prevent me of being for the Belgian cooperation first, then the Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg) cooperation, then Benelux and its neighbours, France, Germany, UK, then Europe, then the North Atlantic, then that part of the world with "Western values", then the world...of course the discussion is then what the "Western values" are...
Ethnicities, nations... and we have not yet spoken of the dividing of sectarian religions including sectarian "a-religions"

Kind regards and with respect to all those who have read the message to the end...

Paul.

I could live with that gospel, Paul, even if I should wish some of the priorities slightly re-arranged...

As to your mention of religions, I should propose that all such be banned from public life.

With kind regards and respect for your generally thought-provoking messages
Nielsen
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 25 Sep 2014, 07:08

If one can't stomach Russell Brand, then perhaps Ed Straw (Jack Straw's brother) is more palatable - he's saying similar things but in a more reasoned manner:

BBC News : Ed Straw: The revolutionary brother
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 25 Sep 2014, 10:19

Yes, I have a very low tolerance level for Russell Brand and didn't even bother looking at his link so thanks for that MM.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 25 Sep 2014, 11:47

I too have negligible tolerance for Russell Brand, even when he's just doing his 'comedy' and not spouting some stupid, attention-grabbing, anarchic rant. I'll admit I'd never even heard of Ed Straw, but from his CV he does seem to have intimate knowledge and experience of 'the system/the problem' and comes with a certain gravitas. And he does seem to have thought the issues through in terms of strategy, practicalities and timescale, rather than just 'sounding off'.  I might even buy his book.

(And for once that BBC piece wasn't too badly written ... especially bearing in mind it appears as a News report rather than an in-depth article).
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 25 Sep 2014, 13:35

It is perhaps unfair to dismiss Brand's political opinions without actually reading what he has to say.

His early "celebrity" years were indeed cringe-worthy (as he himself admits): his various addictions, reckless promiscuity and yes, utterly idiotic attention-seeking "pranks", did not, in the past, encourage one to take anything he had to say seriously. His antics were certainly nothing to be proud of.

However, people do grow up, and Brand seems to have done that. Given his difficult childhood and adolescence, he should perhaps be given credit for overcoming his pretty serious problems and for trying to use his wit and intelligence more usefully.

And I think Brand is remarkably intelligent. When he appeared on Have I Got News For You, Ian Hislop and Paul Merton - two terrifyingly bright opponents - were obviously out to get him - to take him down a peg or several. He ran rings round them. He is the only "celebrity" I've seen do that.

As for being an anarchist - well, didn't we all pride ourselves on being shockingly anarchistic in our youth? I never managed to be very shocking, but I was quite anarchistic at the weekends (after I'd finished my homework).

He is being taken more seriously now, although - it must be admitted - not by everyone (see Joan Smith's comment below). Paxman had time for him on Newsnight and the lad is now writing for the Guardian and for the New Statesman. Let's face it none of us here has managed that.

In October 2013, it was announced that Brand would guest-edit an issue of the New Statesman magazine later that month. On 23 October 2013, Brand was interviewed by Jeremy Paxman for the BBC's Newsnight and was challenged about his call for "revolution" and whether someone who had never voted could edit a political magazine.

In the issue of the New Statesman, published on 24 October 2013, Brand's essay explained his objection to the destruction of earth by greedy exploiters and called for a change in consciousness to accompany political and economic measures to achieve a more sustainable future.  Joan Smith dismissed the "canny self-publicist" who indulges in "adolescent waffle about 'revolution'" as "one celebrity, I'm afraid, who's more idiot than savant." Former Independent editor Simon Kelner largely defended his appearance on Newsnight: "It sounded rather attractive, even if it wasn't exactly worked through. But Brand's rhetorical flourishes made up for the lack of detail". The official Newsnight video clip had received 10,329,794 views on YouTube by 8 August 2014.




Anyway, enough elephant stuff from me.

PS I have to admit I did find Brand alarmingly unwholesome when he first became famous. He seems to be having a thorough wash every day now which is a great improvement. Jemima Khan's good influence, no doubt. Having a very, very rich girl friend is a bit ironic for an anarchist revolutionary, I suppose, but Brand is pretty rich himself now. Mmm.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 25 Sep 2014, 13:54

EDIT: I forgot to thank MM for the link to the interesting Ed Straw article.

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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 25 Sep 2014, 14:00

I did actually read Brand's article ...  and I find him considerably easier to read than listen to. Indeed a lot of what he wrote struck a sympathetic chord with me. As to being rich, well, as he said; when he was poor everyone thought his gripes were just jealousy, but now that he's rich his same gripes are seen as hypocrisy, so he really can't win. He is certainly intelligent and quick-witted, but perhaps too often verging towards the clever-but-eccentric-but-slightly-unstable side of brilliance. Actually, since I do not watch TV, I haven't seen him speak for years.

EDIT : And I meant to add:

At least, following the Scottish referendum, the UK is starting to discuss these sorts of issues. It is too early to see if there is a knock-on effect into wider Europe, although as I've said above there was a lot of interest throughout France, from all sides, in the Scottish vote. But as yet I haven't seen anyone with mainstream visibility in France asking the sort of questions that Brand and Straw, and others, are now visibly asking in the UK. France has many of the same problems as the UK, plus some that are unique to itself, but so far all the political wrangling here still seems to be falling much along the same old 'battle lines' of conservative frugal fiscal policy versus socialist spend to stimulate the economy. For now the unions remain entrenched in their corner ... big business is entrenched in another ... small family businesses, farmers, fishermen etc in another ... the professional civil service jobs-for-life in another ... the long term unemployed and disillusioned in another ... the fat contented home-owning, retired years ago at 50 pensioners in yet another ... etc...   But all with again negligible attention being devoted to any of the real underlying problems.

Maybe the re-emergence of the far right, as represented by Mme Le Pen, might galvanize some sort of discussion and action, athough as I say, at the moment everyone just seems to be trying to protect their own 'rights' ... which surely isn't really what a 'society' is all about.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 26 Sep 2014, 20:11

Here's Brand's interview with Paxman. He doesn't do badly at all against the most fearsome interviewer on British TV. Adolescent waffle maybe, but at least he's passionate - and I think sincere - about it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YR4CseY9pk


Last edited by Temperance on Sat 27 Sep 2014, 06:30; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 26 Sep 2014, 21:08

Gilgamesh of Uruk wrote:
Paul : Britain would have been predisposed to favour anything which prevented the Scheldt estuary falling into the hands of any of the Great Powers of Europe, ic had been a settled part of policy since the time of Elizabeth I - that's where Parma's army was waiting to be collected by Medina Sidonia at the time of the First Armada, and Napoleon described it as "a pistol aimed at the heart of England". I invite you to consider Churchill's attempt in 1914 to use the Royal Marines and surplus Naval reserves (hastily converted into infantry) to hold Antwerp.
edited - I cor spell rite.


Gil,

after Napoleon the Dutch harbours as Rotterdam (Rhein and Meuse estuarium) were as important for the British as Antwerp, but yes in 1914 the Netherlands were "neutral"...and after WWII not sure if important harbours couldn't be "neutralized" in modern warfare? But yes the days of the mighty Great Britain...

Gil thanks to you I found a lot about the history of the traditional friction between Belgium and The Netherlands because of the Antwerp and the Dutch North Sea harbours...only settled fully...and even that Wink ...in the Seventies...

Kind regards and with esteem,

Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Mon 29 Sep 2014, 17:58

i was going to put this in the 'Daily Rant' but I can't find it but it will fit here quite nicely.
I've just been reading the main points of Osborne's speech. A 2 year benefits freeze (not pensions though - I wonder why?) and a special card so that claimants will probably need to spend their pittance in one of the supermarkets that announced that prices would rise if we voted 'Yes', after their little chat with Dave. It seems to have escaped his notice that most benefits recipients are in work and wages are, at best, static, so heaven help them never mind the unemployed.
It just makes a girl so relieved that our dear UK has been saved to keep us secure in the warmth of its caring embrace.
Bugger another referendum, it's UDI next time.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 30 Sep 2014, 04:53

Ferval, the Daily Rant is now the Grumpy Old Fart's Corner.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 30 Sep 2014, 09:30

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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 30 Sep 2014, 19:53

Islanddawn wrote:
And further to ferval's post above

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/tories-target-ordinary-working-bastards-2014093091172  Smile


Islanddawn,

I know that my knowledge of the colloquial English is not that great...in our dialect and the Dutch one, "bastard" is rather negative, a
term of abuse, in fact a child of parents that are not married especially from a monarch or a prominent, an illegal child, also a child with parents from different race...but even in Dutch now more the modern version of the more amiable version as old bastard, old fellow...perhaps Meles meles the same evolution as the French word "crapule" and I heard also the cosy "crapule de luxe"...
Islanddawn, "bastard" in nowadays English: old fellow? mate?

We have also some synonym from that old fellow bastard in the French word "Gaillard", Dutch "Galjaard"...

Kind regards and with esteem, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 30 Sep 2014, 20:14

Yes, bastard means an illegitimate child in English also Paul. But it also can be used to describe something of inferior, irregular or dubious origin or design. And then it also has a colloquial meaning to describe a person who is nasty or disagreeable (normally a male not a female). In some cases it can be used almost affectionately or jokingly between friends but no, you couldn't use it for fellow or mate.

The link I posted above is not a serious article though, the site takes a humorous look at current topics in the British press and makes fun of just about everyone and anything.
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Gilgamesh of Uruk
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 30 Sep 2014, 23:28

It's also a typeface, and a type of metal working file.
Incidentally, in the RN, senior ratings and officers used to be warned not to use it as a term of abuse for miscreants - there was a fair chance they actually would have been bastards, and liable to take umbrage at its use.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 01 Oct 2014, 09:14

There's also the "Bastard sword" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword though you have to read a fair way down the linked article to find it. I know Rik Mayall had a character surnamed "B'stard" in a 1990s comedy but I believe at one time it was an actual surname.  I can't despite scouring the depths of my memory recall which journal it was, but some years ago in one of those "50 years ago", "75 years ago" "150 years ago" in a paper where they print extracts from their edition so many years ago, I read an obituary for a person surnamed "Bastard".  Possibly nowadays people whose ancestors bore the name have changed their name by deed poll.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 01 Oct 2014, 20:04

Thank you all for the explanations.

Kind regards to the three of you, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 08 Oct 2014, 14:32

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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 08 Oct 2014, 14:41

Where one finds the customer service attaché waiting to process your complaint

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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 08 Oct 2014, 14:55

This one I understand. Elephants take tourists up the main  steps and incline to the huge palace at Amber. The elephant in front of us deliberately kept bashing the sides so that the  - in this case Germans -  had a dreadful ride.  I was told it was bored. Someone could have been hurt it was so bad. Once up there the monkeys then take over and could attack. A sad place where the small red handprints of Suti wives  line gateways they passed to lie on their husband's funeral pyre. A rather depressing place in my opinion in its huge oppressive dominance. And they had huge surly elephants that needed an office to sort. Their mahouts did not care a mahout as far as I could see. Good pic above Temps. There ought be a similar notice for doubters and missing princes at Leicester.


Last edited by Priscilla on Wed 08 Oct 2014, 14:56; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : sloppy typing as ever)
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Sat 25 Oct 2014, 21:30

Temperance wrote:
they played "I vow to thee my country" on Radio 2 a bit ago and it made me cry. Embarassed

PS My country - Great Britain, not England.

Oh dear - that grates a bit Temp. My father's family is from Tavistock (in the west of Devonshire) and I remember when visiting as a child, an elderly female relative proudly pointing out that the county town of Exeter was one of the very few places in the world which has alliteration in its address:

Exeter
England
Europe
Earth
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Sun 26 Oct 2014, 06:24

Vizzer wrote:

Oh dear - that grates a bit Temp. My father's family is from Tavistock (in the west of Devonshire) and I remember when visiting as a child, an elderly female relative proudly pointing out that the county town of Exeter was one of the very few places in the world which has alliteration in its address:

Exeter
England
Europe
Earth


Devon's a funny place though, Vizzer. During the first twenty years of residence here, you are simply a grockle or tourist: after that you become more accepted, qualifying as a  "furriner". I must be the only person in England/Great Britain who pines for the Thelwall Viaduct. I cry easily, not just listening to hymns: crossing over the Manchester Ship Canal and the Mersey (Preston to Warrington stretch of the M6) I once wept with nostalgia.

Devon's beautiful, but...

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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Mon 27 Oct 2014, 06:09

Ferval, I have just read this in the Daily Mail and I am ashamed:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2808926/Revealed-English-plot-kidnap-Nessie-Papers-1933-Scots-feared-monster-taken-London-carcass-display.html


However, London wanted her shot on sight and the carcass sent to museum. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 28 Oct 2014, 22:30

I once witnessed a cousin being taken to task by my great aunt for using the term 'grockle'. She said that it was not a word she recognised and did not exist in Devon at all when she was growing up. She suggested that it was a media invention and arose in the 1970s. Furthermore she believed that it was invented by a television type who wasn't even from Devon himself - the irony of that.

Like many English people who were/are sympathetic to the Scottish Yes campaign, I recall Nicola Sturgeon saying the morning after the poll that there probably wouldn't be another referendum until about 2029. That was 180 months away then. Now it's only 178 months away.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 29 Oct 2014, 09:43

It's highly entertaining here just now, watching the game of pass-the-parcel as Labour politicians treat the opportunity to lead their party like a red hot brick. Who will be stuck with it when the music stops? It would be funny if it weren't so tragic to see the heirs of Maxton and co desperately trying to avoid the position of presiding over the death of a great movement.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 29 Oct 2014, 11:53

Indeed - one wonders what Keir Hardie would have made of it all.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 29 Oct 2014, 12:34

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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 29 Oct 2014, 22:50

And one doesn't need to go back as far as Keir Hardie to contemplate the big hitters of the Scottish Labour Party. For example there was the last minute intervention during the referendum campaign by former UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown. 

He was invisible during the campaign when the No camp was ostensibly headed by Alistair Darling and then in the final week when the 'Three Amigos' were ineffectually puffing and blowing about their 'Vow', it was the impressive display by the MP for Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath which caught the imagination even of those of us who favoured the other side. Even more intriguing was his sudden disappearance from the public eye immediately afterwards.

This was puzzling. I was wracking my brain to think what this episode reminded me of. Then I remembered it was the screenplay from the 1960 film Spartacus (based on the Howard Fast novel) and a scene in which Marcus Licinius Crassus (Laurence Olivier) outlines his plans for his beaten arch-rival Senator Gracchus (Charles Laughton).

'CRASSUS: Did you truly believe years of Rome could so easily be delivered into the clutches of a mob? Already the bodies of crucified slaves line the Appian Way. Tomorrow the last of their companions will fight to the death in the temple of my fathers as a sacrifice to them. As those slaves have died, so will your rabble if they falter one instant in loyalty to the new order of affairs. The enemies of the state are known. Arrests are in progress. The prisons begin to fill. In every city and province, lists of the disloyal have been compiled. Tomorrow they will learn the cost of their terrible folly - their treason.

GRACCHUS: Where does my name appear on the list of disloyal enemies of the state?

CRASSUS: First. Yet upon you I have no desire for vengeance. Your property shall not be touched. You will retain the rank and title of Roman senator. A house, a farmhouse in Picenum has been provided for your exile. You may take your women with you.

GRACCHUS: Why am I to be left so conspicuously alive?

CRASSUS: Your followers are deluded enough to trust you. I intend that you shall speak to them tomorrow for their own good, their peaceful and profitable future. From time to time thereafter, I may find it useful to bring you back to Rome to continue your duty to her, to calm the envious spirit and the troubled mind. You will persuade them to accept destiny and order and trust the gods! You may go.'
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 17 Apr 2015, 08:52

After watching the TV debate last night one realises what a powerful lady this Nicola Sturgeon could prove to be. You must be well pleased, ferval!

Looks like a Conservative/Labour coalition is going to be the only answer.  Smile

I wish I could take the Welsh Plaid Cymru lady, Leanne Wood, seriously: unfortunately she always reminds me of Myfanwy, the landlady of the Llanndewi-Brefi pub in Little Britain - Daffyd's friend.


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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 17 Apr 2015, 09:55

It's likely to depend on which of the SNP candidates (NS not being one) gets to lead the Westminster group. Probably Alex Salmond, a name that I understand stinks to high heaven with Labour. which could complicate the issue.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 17 Apr 2015, 10:00

Wee Nicola is my MSP, Temp, and yes I am pleased but I'm even more heartened by the number of competent and impressive women politicians that we have had up here recently.
Down sarf there seems to be some surprise to see a number of women in the forefront; up here it's been like that for a while so we're used to it, three female party leaders last session. Even those with whose policies I have issues come across as recognisably human beings, not just identity kit clones who are entirely focussed on personal power for its own sake.

People outwith Scotland presumably aren't as familiar with most of them - Annabell Goldie, Ruth Davison, Johan Lamont, Margaret Curren, Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, Kezia Dugdale etc., but it's encouraging to see so many serious women being taken seriously.

Just don't start me on creepy Jim Murphy........
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 17 Apr 2015, 17:55

The euroseptic didn't seem able to cope with female leaders at all, did he?
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Wed 22 Apr 2015, 16:17

ferval wrote:


Just don't start me on creepy Jim Murphy........

Nine years at University and never graduated.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Mon 27 Apr 2015, 16:22

They all lost me ages ago. Young man in interview said that he is for Labour but will vote tactically and Tory. This he did not explain. My postal vote has not arrived so maybe our postman has made a tactical choice. It was sent on the 23rd.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 01 May 2015, 12:08




Gosh, that poor baby looks terrified.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 01 May 2015, 12:16

Well, looking at those teeth to the right and to the left ... I think anyone would be frightened.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 01 May 2015, 12:57

Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 01 May 2015, 14:29

No need to fear, little one........


                                                                               



Unless you have a favourite dolly..........


DID NICOLA STURGEON HACK THE HAIR FROM HER SISTER’S BARBIE DOLL?

A look at the life of the woman who wants to break up Britain
April 25, 2015, by Oliver Harvey

As a child, Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is said to have devilishly hacked the hair from her sister’s beloved doll.

It was an early sign of the ruthlessness which has propelled her to the top of Scottish — and potentially British — politics.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 01 May 2015, 15:27

And there was me thinking that the British electorate were concerned about uncontrolled immigration, ISIS, an authoritarian Russia, global warming, corruption in high places, the stability of the global economy, peak oil, destruction of the world's ecosystems, an increasingly aggressive China, nuclear proliferation, the increasing imbalance between rich and poor, the huge ponzi scheme called pensions, anti-biotic resistance ... and why in a finite world, growth/expansion/more consumption is still the only model the world seems to accept.

.... So glad to see that the election is likely to be decided on the really important issues!

I know that these sort of things - eg Nicola's hair - are just bandied around the media for comedic effect ... but really, sometimes I despair ... the level of debate in Britain for this election is so appallingly parochial. Nobody seems to want to even mention the real issues that will hit home over the next few years. So they just talk about a small tweak here in education, just a bland statement here about pensions, an empty promise here about the NHS ....

Pah!

I don't mean to sound like a ranting Old Testament Prophet, but for a country that is edging towards leaving the EU ... the level of debate about what that might actually mean is so low as to be negligible. Even during the recent local elections in France people were discussing what might be the implications for them if the UK left the EU.


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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 01 May 2015, 15:29

Oh dear, this will just confirm your observations, MM.





But the lassie must be doing something right http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?p=77868834

You're right though, the level of debate has generally been dreadful and getting increasingly so as the two main parties descend further and further into panic and become even more desperate.
If there is an in-out poll and it goes with 'out', it will trigger another referendum here.

.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 01 May 2015, 15:47

Well quite, and Nicola does often seem to have more balls than all the Bullington boys put together.

PS : D'ya think if there's a Brexit ... and then an Independent Scotland, joins/rejoins/reconfirms its EU  membership ... I could apply for Scottish citizenship? My father's family was originally from Fife (we're a sept of the MacDuffs), d'ya think that's enough to get me a Scottish passport?
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 01 May 2015, 16:40

Well, you certainly could play football or rugby for us with a Scottish grandparent, in fact I seem to remember something about only having to have been educated here for a number of years to qualify.
You would be most welcome to take up citizenship I'm sure but don't expect any favourable non-dom tax status. You'll need to move your B&B to some heilan' glen though. We're very pro-immigration up here but, god knows, we need all the tax payers we can get and we'll need even more if more Scots start living long enough to draw their pension.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 01 May 2015, 17:43

Actually, Question Time on BBC 1 last night was very good. I'm voting for the audience ( the programme came from Leeds). The three leaders were all thoroughly grilled by those Northerners.

Shame Ed did a bit of a Madonna at the end: I knew someone would fall off that dais, and of course he did.

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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 08 May 2015, 13:28

Temperance wrote:



ID wrote: A wake up call for the Tories though.

More a wake-up call for the Scottish Labour Party: the Tories have never been big over the border. And I rather think Cameron is very pleased - and not just at the "No" vote. As I have previously said, he has destroyed the Lib Dems in England and now, with all this morning's talk of devolution for the English - an "English" Parliament ("English votes for English laws") - he's gunning for the Labour Party: he'll ensure that in the future the Scottish Labour MPs have no power at Westminster to vote  on the really important things. How many votes is that - about 41? Not an insignificant number. Cameron's no fool, whatever people think.

Cameron studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) at Brasenose College, Oxford, gaining a first-class honours degree in 1988. He was described by his tutor, Professor Vernon Bogdanor, as "one of the ablest" students he has ever taught.




I posted that last year just before the Referendum. Oh, Nicola, Nicola, how you've helped our Dave.


Bogdanor must be thinking: "That's my boy!" this morning - three bodies sliced neatly in two and left on display in the piazza.


Brilliant.


So who'll be next? Watch your back, girl, and do be careful what you pray for: you may just get it.


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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 08 May 2015, 14:57

MM - I'm sure you will get your passport. On the form to join an overseas Caledonian Society I claimed that my cousin had once had a West Highland terrier and they accepted me.....well Honorary like - but they soon dropped that to claim my annual  full sub; pragmatic, the Scots.

As for serious voting, my cleaning lady said she only voted for real things like X Factor and Britain's got Talent. And many times over at cost.

TV seems to be all talking heads - the ones who got it wrong last week and now probably getting their guesses wrong again.

But I think the new SNP Members may get a jolt when they get down to business in the Hof P and the many committees that effect business that it is not all about finding ways to do down  the Scots.

All the serious issues that you mention, MM, are I think in the minds of people who have to deal with them - and people do discuss them, no as the French do, I admit.

I was startled by the former speech writer of Blair saying that Milibrand was like a sixth form left winger; mm,  there us some truth in that. I wonder how his brother might word a message to him?
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 08 May 2015, 16:08

Mhairi Black, an SNP member, is the youngest MP to be elected to Westminster since 1667.

Christopher Monck, 2nd Duke of Albemarle, was 13 when he was elected as an MP in Devon in 1667.

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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Sat 09 May 2015, 10:14

Of course 13 year old Monck's election as MP had absolutely nothing to do with his father being the distinguished soldier and statesman, General Monck, who had served as a colonel in the Royalist army until captured and imprisoned, then served as a General in the Commonwealth army in Ireland and Scotland, and was finally one of the major players in supporting the restoration of Charles II. Mind you Monck junior does seem to have been a prococious lad, he entered Gray's Inn to train as a lawyer at nine years old, and he married at just sixteen!

I was also interested to read that in the current election the new Labour MP for Aberavon, Stephen Kinnock (son of Neil Kinnock), is married to Helle Thorning-Schmidt, the current Prime Minister of Denmark.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Sat 09 May 2015, 20:43

You're a mine of information MM.  Maybe Monck Junior was the legal equivalent of Mozart in the child prodigy stakes.  I had absolutely no idea that Kinnock Junior was married to the Danish Prime Minister.  One of my cousins was at Uni with his fond papa - different circle of friends.  My teacher wound up as a primary headmistress so I would say she led a useful working life even if she did not end up a household name like Kinnock Pere.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Sat 09 May 2015, 21:36

I'm surprised you didn't know, either of you, did you miss the infamous 'selfie' incident with her, Obama and our imperial master at the Mandela memorial service. That's when the marriage became widely known.

Michelle was not best pleased. What Stephen K. thought of it is not known.




As to Dave and the result, I wondering if he's pondering over the experience of the previous Conservative PM to be returned unexpectedly with a small majority?
Like John he has the Europe and 'unreconstructed bastards' problem to face but circus boy didn't have a tousled haired assassin honing his knife behind him. On the other hand, he did have Edwina........
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Sat 09 May 2015, 21:53

He'll be OK till 2017. When he decides the "new deal" from the EU is enough to recommend staying in at the referendum, the Euroseptics will want to spit-roast him. They may (politically at least) well succeed in doing so.
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